New Nord Stage 3 user... and some concerns

[Will_Gould]

Hello, I am new to the forum and recently (two weeks ago) purchased what I hoped would be my dream keyboard, a Nord Stage 3. I have a few concerns though, that I am interested in some view on...

Some context: I play in a quite gig active rock originals band, which requires me to use a lot of piano, some organ, and some synth. I also own a Korg Minologue xd which I have used for the whackier synth sounds and sequences. My old 88 key (which I still own) is a Yamaha MX88, which is meant to be a kind of low end workstation although it uses Motif XS sounds, but which I now realise really does punch way above its weight.

On the Yamaha, I used to extensively use one piano patch, named 'Rock Grand' with no eq changes, and it effectlvely served my purposes very well - natural but punchy and bright, and recreating brilliantly the resonance of an acoustic piano (which I also have at home). Although the organs are relatively weak on it, the synth patches on the Yamaha are also really good for the price point. Unfortunately, so far I have not been able to get a piano sound on the Nord that is as pleasing or useable as on the Yamaha... I have experimented with all the models and tried to focus on something like the Silver or and 'Bright' grand pianos. I have tweaked eq both on the piano section itself and on the amp section, etc but still on a side by side basis, the Yamaha seems to be a stronger sound for rock piano in a live mix. (I am also having some trouble getting the same kinds of gritty, punchy synth sounds out of it but I feel this may well be mostly down to user error at this point!)

This could all be partially my ear being used to the older Yamaha piano sound but when I sent the guitarist in our band a blind recording of both, he also preferred 'B' (the Yamaha). I imagine I may be able to download some different Nord piano models, but I was hoping I would find the advantages of a keyboard 4x the price in this area immediately apparent! Any thoughts would be gratefully received.

[Will_Gould]

Hi Will,

all welcome to this great forum of Nord enthusiast, and congrats for purchasing a Nord Stage 3

I have a few questions which might help understand the issue:

- Can you let us know which NS3 mnodel you've got - the NS3 Compact, the NS3 HP76 or the NS3 88?

- Are you using a headphone or extenal amplification to check the sounds of the Nord, and if external amplification are you using it in mono or stereo?

- Have you tried all different combinations of KB TOUCH and TIMBRE settings?

My preferred pianos for rock are the silver and the bright, both with KB TOUCH on 2 or 3 and Timbre set to Bright and some compression. Much better than the pianos on my Motif XF .... but that's subjective

[Will_Gould]

A few thoughts and some questions for you.

Back when I made the transition to the NS2 over ten years ago, I had been using the Yamaha stage pianos (S90, S70XS) and was very, very used to the "brighter" type of piano sound on those units. The Nord piano library has a ton of variety and they play more like "real pianos" out of the box, rather than a brightly EQ'd type of "rock" piano sound. There's part of this that requires some time to simply get used to the difference. It takes a while to pick a favorite Nord piano and many of use multiple pianos. Also, it can be solved with use of the Nord FX (EQ, compressor, etc.) to dress up the sounds a bit more.

The main question I have for you is are you monitoring in stereo? This is a significant point for using Nord sounds and getting the most from them - Nord pianos really shine in stereo and can be a little bit boxy or incomplete in mono.

After all these years, I cringe a little at the brightness of Yamaha pianos compared to Nord. I still have my S90 for occasional home use and love it for a few things, though I'm totally sold on Nord pianos. I have a lot of various recordings with the Nord piano and it sounds great - again, in stereo.

Hope this helps a bit!

Eric

[Will_Gould]

HI both - thank you for the responses. I have an 88 key Nord Stage 3 - the hammer action one.

Yes, I have played around with the timbre settings but not too much the KB touch yet. I will try that - thank you.

It could well be that it is what I am used to hearing on the Yamaha... that is true. The latter does, however, seem to resonate in a more pleasing and realistic way too though, and feels much less stiff/dry in its sound if that makes sense? But yes, need to play around with it more.

Monitoring in stereo - no, I am not doing that, and never did with the Yamaha. In many of the gigs, running stereo wasn't always an option because of certain limitations, and I am interested in the sounds that would work through in a live scenario

[Will_Gould]

Nord Pianos are stereo and do sound best when using stereo, mono will give a a relatively bad experience. My InEar monitors are mono too, but I know that the sound from the PA is in stereo and does sound more than decent so I'm not worried because my monitoring sounds bad. Check the Nord pianos in stereo to see if they still sound bad to your ears. You may also try the "Mono Out" option to check any improvements when listening in Mono

[Will_Gould]

Thank you- having done more research, it seems that the Nords have a relatively larger difference running mono compared to stereo. My slight worry now is that some venues or PAs will not necessarily accommodate stereo. The mono out button does seem to help but I didn’t envisage such a huge mono/stereo disparity on pianos when I researched the keyboard to buy. And yes, having tried it- the stereo sound is wonderful by comparison

[analogika]

Thank you- having done more research, it seems that the Nords have a relatively larger difference running mono compared to stereo. My slight worry now is that some venues or PAs will not necessarily accommodate stereo. The mono out button does seem to help but I didn’t envisage such a huge mono/stereo disparity on pianos when I researched the keyboard to buy. And yes, having tried it- the stereo sound is wonderful by comparison

Hello and welcome to the Forum! Rather than run in MONO mode, some players choose to only run the right channel (CH2) so that the high end of the piano cuts through while the low end is a little further back in the mix and not competing with the bass player. Running one of two channels for the Leslie sounds pretty good too as it was typical with that speaker to place a microphone on the top horn and another on bottom rotor in performance (not stereo) creating more of a pulsing/tremolo effect. Even if the PA is mono, running a personal stereo mix sounds great in performance. Good luck to you.

[cphollis]

Thank you- having done more research, it seems that the Nords have a relatively larger difference running mono compared to stereo. My slight worry now is that some venues or PAs will not necessarily accommodate stereo. The mono out button does seem to help but I didn’t envisage such a huge mono/stereo disparity on pianos when I researched the keyboard to buy. And yes, having tried it- the stereo sound is wonderful by comparison

Glad you got to that conclusion! I can't speak about your venues and sound people, but having done live sound -- taking two outputs from a keyboard and panning one L and the other R is not asking a lot. Monitoring is a separate topic, IEMs might work for you, or schlep a pair of monitors as I do.

When forced to play in mono (rarely), I have to add subtle chorus to my APs -- or layer two pianos -- to get back the missing dimensionality. White Grand for the win.

[analogika]

Thank you- having done more research, it seems that the Nords have a relatively larger difference running mono compared to stereo. My slight worry now is that some venues or PAs will not necessarily accommodate stereo. The mono out button does seem to help but I didn’t envisage such a huge mono/stereo disparity on pianos when I researched the keyboard to buy. And yes, having tried it- the stereo sound is wonderful by comparison

Hello and welcome to the Forum! Rather than run in MONO mode, some players choose to only run the right channel (CH2) so that the high end of the piano cuts through while the low end is a little further back in the mix and not competing with the bass player. Running one of two channels for the Leslie sounds pretty good too as it was typical with that speaker to place a microphone on the top horn and another on bottom rotor in performance (not stereo) creating more of a pulsing/tremolo effect. Even if the PA is mono, running a personal stereo mix sounds great in performance. Good luck to you.

This exactly.

A real problem I have with the Leslie simulation is that going out mono will actually sum both horn microphones, so you get TWO passes per rotation — an annoying warbling. A Leslie mic'ed in mono is ONE microphone on the horn, and using only channel 2 for a mono mix solves this problem.

[Will_Gould]

Here is a quick ‘live’ recording with both keyboards on mono so you get a sense... first is Nord Stage 3, second is Yamaha MX88. Both mono, but Nord on the ‘mono’ setting