Loading patches a fundamental question

[ZeroZero]

So I understand how to load presets. There are three kinds, organ, piano and synth. The synth layers can load presets which are either a sample or an analog wave.

In Nord speak a piano is what? An "instrument"? It can't really be a "sample"?

I think a Piano or Organ preset is an "instrument" plus fx and settings?

Loading an "instrument" (e.g. White Grand) into a piano layer without loading Layout Effects presets? I don't know how? DO I have to initialise the layer first, then use the list dial?

The manual is clear about synth layers, but I have not found much about piano and synth.

Can anyone clarify please?

Z

[FZiegler]

Mmh. You are not totally new to the Nord world, are you? There are new aspects, though. Presets are one, and I'm not firm with them.

If you've been an Electro 2 owner as your profile states, you should know that a Nord program always comprises a piano type in the piano engine. That's also the case with both piano layers/engines on your NS4. Even if the layer is not active, it already has a piano sample assigned. Yes, they are samples. No, they aren't the same as synth samples: That's two different libraries as you may know. Technically, they are quite different: The piano samples contain up to a dozen or so differently sounding velocity layers (while the synth samples only have one); whereas the synth samples can get shaped by envelopes and filters (which the piano engine doesn't provide).

In Nord speak, a piano can be a sample - raw material for a sound that you will dial in in a piano layer. So, a piano can also be a sound engine as part of your NS4 - now called a 'layer' (you have two of them). If you only activate one or two of those piano layers and either use the other layers just to create a background or leave them disabled, the resulting program (sound overall) may also be called a piano.

Whatever you call an 'instrument' may be up to you - I don't remember Nord calling anything an instrument but your Stage 4.

The White Grand, e.g., is a piano sample that may serve to create piano sounds. It's not that unusual to call that an instrument, but only in a certain way. An instrument is a tool, and I'd rather call your Stage 4 a (multitimbral) instrument.

If you want to create a new program (e.g. a piano sound), just activate the layers you want. Whereas a synth can have a sample loaded or not (when it's set to synth), piano layers always have a piano sample loaded already - just dial in another one from the piano samples you have on your keyboard (either as part of the factory settings or downloaded via Nord Sound Manager).

Does this help?

[ZeroZero]

Does this help?

A bit thank you. Just a bit more clarity please.

TBH: Although I have had the Stage 4 a while, I have only used the Stockholm sound - which I love. I read the manual back then, but now forget it as I never put it into action. Now I am doing a deep dive into settings and developing sounds. I never really used the other Nords, my C1 and electro.

So Nord calls a piano or an organ a "sample". I thought this might be the case, it's confusing as you rightly point out a piano is usually several samples per velocity layer and key.

A Nord Layer preset, is I think a "piano sample" and (usually) some verb and fx? I think this is correct?

When we see a Piano Preset in the Nord Sound Manager, we do not see settings for reverb and layer fx, but they are assumed?

If one wants to just load a "piano sample" say White Grand, then one can do this by a] Initalising the layer b] Use the List dial to select a different "naked" piano with no fx or reverb.

If one loads a piano preset, this contains verb and layer settings?

If for example, one loaded a White Grand preset (as opposed to a White Grand "sample", then decided to change the piano to the an EP, using the list dial, then the White Grand "sample" would change to the EP "sample" but the reverb and layer settings would remain as they were for the original "White Grand Settings" - somewhat inappropriately.

I think this is right?

thank you for your considered reply

Z

[FZiegler]

There are different ways to understand it.

I see it this way, as it seems quite evident: Every program has a value for every knob, button or fader on the panel. There are no programs that only consist of a sample - all of them have FX settings, just being on or off. On the NS4, each of the 7 layers (engines) has a full set of independent FX settings on its own - that's even more than the knobs and buttons let you assume.

If you don't like calling a piano a sample, call it a sample pack, if you will. It's just something else than a bundle - which is one or more programs together with the underlying (piano & synth) samples ready to store on a computer and share.

[cgrafx]

If for example, one loaded a White Grand preset (as opposed to a White Grand "sample", then decided to change the piano to the an EP, using the list dial, then the White Grand "sample" would change to the EP "sample" but the reverb and layer settings would remain as they were for the original "White Grand Settings" - somewhat inappropriately.

I think this is right?

Don't overthink it.

Yes the reverb and layer settings would remain as they were for the "White Grand". So what? there is nothing specific about the reverb or any of the other layer settings that make them inappropriate for the EP sample. Those things that don't specifically apply (like string resonance" are either going to turn off or simply won't have any affect on the EP sample so it won't matter.

The layer setting is nothing more than a sample, some layer settings and some effects. You can initialize a layer and start with all of those parameters off/defaulted or by modifying an existing configuration. There is no right or wrong way to do this.

[FZiegler]

I was writing at the same time as cgrafx:

1. Nord doesn't 'call' a piano sample a sample, it is a sample in the sense of the underlying technology: The piano is sampled creating that raw sound data. Whereas the organ layers don't rely on sampling technology - they are physically modelled. No organ samples to load except for some organ samples for the synth section (layers) that will allow to modify organ sounds in a way the organ engine won't allow (filtering, enveloppes, arpeggios).

2. As far as I know, layer presets always contain a full set of FX settings (on or off) - for each layer included (there are single presets and presets for the full section).

3. The names for presets and programs are very short so you usually aren't able to note everything important to that sound. Including reverb or FX settings. You'll need to find a way to deal with that.

4. If you want to build a sound from scratch, just use the Init button. If you dial in another piano or synth sample, there will always be set whatever was set for the program before - loading another sample won't change anything on that.

In my eyes, the NS4 is a tool (or a pro toy) to play around with. Just make a full backup and then go for it. Most questions will be answered by just trying it out. And be sure it will take a while to master the beast.

[ZeroZero]

Thank you both,
I am clear now. I just need to get the Nord language clarified.

Z