Nord Electro 3 split keyboard for samples & organ/piano

[enjoythemoon]

Hello, I'm new to this forum. I'm not presently a Nord user, but I'm considering the purchase of an Electro 3. I'm wondering whether it's possible to set up the board such that specified keys will trigger user-defined samples, while the remaining keys will play any of the standard instruments (organ or piano). I'd love for the Electro 3 to replace my laptop as a container for samples, but not at the expense of being able to play organ or piano simultaneously.

As a separate question, I'm also curious to know which size keyboard (61/73/88) is the most sensible? I understand that this is a very subjective question that relates more to my specific application, but I thought I'd see what other folks are using. I would rather go with a smaller keyboard, like a 61-key unit, for ease of transportation and space efficiency (the keyboard will see significant stage use with some touring in the future). This size has been perfect for playing rock music on my Juno 106, but the piano on the Electro 3 could open new sonic possibilities that might necessitate at least 73 keys?

My apologies if these topics have already been discussed in existing threads - in this case I would appreciate a link to the relevant discussions.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[anotherscott]

I'm wondering whether it's possible to set up the board such that specified keys will trigger user-defined samples, while the remaining keys will play any of the standard instruments (organ or piano). I'd love for the Electro 3 to replace my laptop as a container for samples, but not at the expense of being able to play organ or piano simultaneously.

Nope. The E3 is monotimbral... one sound at a time... piano, organ, or set of samples. To do what you want, you need the next model up, the Stage 2.

As a separate question, I'm also curious to know which size keyboard (61/73/88) is the most sensible? ...[61] has been perfect for playing rock music on my Juno 106, but the piano on the Electro 3 could open new sonic possibilities that might necessitate at least 73 keys?

If your use is primarily organ and sample-based sounds, I think 61 is ideal. If your use is heavier on piano than organ, then I'd look at the HP model with 73 weighted keys. The in-between, 73 unweighted keys, is more of a "niche" IMO, best for those who focus a lot on Clavinet and EP, where the 61 doesn't cover quite the right range of keys, but true weighted action would not be so badly missed. BTW, there is no 88 version of the Electro series.

[enjoythemoon]

Thanks for your reply. AHHH, Stage 2. That sounds expensive!

I'll look into both Stage 2 and Electro 3 HP...

[mjbrands]

Or maybe a 2nd hand Stage EX in combination with your laptop? The original Stage can't use samples in the synth section and it can't use the string resonance feature for the pianos. Both the Electro 3 and Electro 3 HP support string resonance, but the Stage 2 has an improved version.

The Stage/Stage 2 can do fairly flexible splits and include two Extern sections (one per 'layer') to be used for controlling external equipment, such as a separate sound module or a softsynth on your laptop.

Edit: changed some incorrect information rb4u1 pointed out.

[rb4u1]

I don't have an Electro 3hp but I don't believe it has the same kind of resonance as the
Nord Piano. I'm not sure what kind of resonance the Stage has.

[mjbrands]

I don't have an Electro 3hp but I don't believe it has the same kind of resonance as the
Nord Piano. I'm not sure what kind of resonance the Stage has.

You are right, I corrected my post above. I was convinced the Electro 3 didn't have string resonance, but appearently it does and the E3 HP and E4D seem to add 'on/off' control? Does this mean you can't turn it on/off on the original Electro 3?

Anyway, according to the Nord site the Stage (Classic) and Stage Ex didn't have the string resonance feature, while the Stage 2 does (and it appearently is a newer version than what the E3 has).

[anotherscott]

Nord Stage Classic and Electro 3/4 have pedal-down ("generation 1") string resonance. Stage EX, Stage 2 and Nord PIanos have that but also have pedal-up string resonance ("generation 2"), i.e. based on what other keys are depressed). On the models without a switch for it, I believe the only way to disable it is to load the "small" version of the piano (which does not include the resonance samples).

[enjoythemoon]

Thanks for all the replies so far. I'm leaning towards an Electro 3 61-key - based on my experience comparing E3 and E3HP at my local behemoth chain store, it seems that the semi-weighted waterfall KB will be more versatile - I'll be using piano for accents here and there, but I'll mostly be using the organ and sample library sounds (which are amazing - look at all those samples on the Nord site!). Perhaps one day I'll upgrade to the newest version of the Stage.

Regarding the sample library: I haven't had the experience of using the Nord Sample Editor, but can I not use it to map unique samples to each key? In which case, if Nord had its piano samples available for download (albeit minus the resonance feature), couldn't I kinda map piano sounds to only some of the keys, while mapping my own WAV samples to other keys? I guess I'm not understanding what it means for the E3 to not be "multi-timbral"... maybe it means that the E3 Sample section only uses a single sample, transposed across all keys?

Thanks in advance!

[anotherscott]

You can create custom samples that put different sounds on different keys. From the Nord's point of view, it is a single sound, but yes, you are "tricking" it into splitting the board into two sounds. There are lots of limitations to that approach, though. No, you can't use Nord's piano samples that way, at least not directly. You could create your own wav files by playing their piano samples into the computer, and using those wav files to create a split sample, but that piano sound will have only one velocity layer. You also will not be able to use the sustain pedal to sustain the piano portion of the keyboard without it simultaneously sustaining whatever sound you may be playing on the other side of the keyboard. Similarly, with such a two sound split, you cannot apply an effect to one sound and not the other. Also, you won't be able to alter the volume balance between the two sounds (unless perhaps you sample them so that one sound only comes out the left output and the other only comes out the right, in which case you could at least alter their volumes externally).

The instruments that are really designed to let you split and mix piano, drawbar organ, and custom samples are the Nord Stage 2, Kurzweil PC3K, and Korg Kronos. Alternatively, you can use a combination of two boards, or a board and a sound module/iPad/laptop.

[mjbrands]

I guess I'm not understanding what it means for the E3 to not be "multi-timbral"

It means the E3 can produce only one timbre at the same time. A timbre, or tone color, can roughly be translated to 'instrument' on the Nords. So for example the E3 cannot make a piano and an organ sound at the same time. (You could fake it by using samples in the way anotherscott describes, but it has quite a few limitations). The E3 is mono-timbral (1 timbre), the Nord Wave bi-timbral (2 timbres) and the Nord Lead 2X can have four different timbres at the same time. On the Stage this is more complex.

In addition to this, you also have something for which the term 'voice' is often used. A 'voice' is a sound produced with a specific timbre. For example, hitting a C major chord uses three voices. An organ and a piano sound have a different timbre, but also two piano sounds which use a different program (and this settings, or even a different piano such as Lady D and Bright Grand). An instrument with only one voice is called mono-phonic and anything with more than one voice is called poly-phonic. It is typically analog synthesizers (the Moog Little Phatty for example) that are monophonic, while most other keyboards and synthesizers are polyphonic (which includes all Nord products, although the Nord Drum might be an exception).

The Electro has 40-60 voices for either piano or samples, but it doesn't list any value for the organ section. The Lead 2X has 20 voices, the Wave 18 and the Stage 2 has 40-60 voices for the piano section, 18 for the synth section and an unknown amount for the organ section which can all be used at the same time. The different sections on the Stage 2 are bi-timbral, so you can have two different pianos, two different organs and two different synth sounds at the same time (not counting external equipment here).

You can find this information in the specifications of the different Nord products.

maybe it means that the E3 Sample section only uses a single sample, transposed across all keys?

It could, but that's up to you: that's what you can use the Sample Editor for. You could give every key its own sample if you wanted to, but you might run out of memory on the E3. Usually you'll have 1-3 samples per octave.

What is a bit confusing (to me anyway) is that Clavia calls a collection of samples a sample too. Most 'samples' in the Nord Sample Library actually contain lots of different samples, probably 1-3 per octave.

Roland Kuit has uploaded some drum sounds to the Sample Library where he included the Sample Editor project and the samples (WAV files) it uses. This allows you to modify it to your own taste or even use the WAVs for something else; normally you cannot do this, as the 'samples' are in a special Nord-specific format that can only be used for downloading to you Nord.

Even if you don't have a Nord instrument right now, it might be interesting to download Roland Kuit's drum sounds and the Nord Sample Editor (which works without a Nord instrument). You can open Roland's project and get an idea of what you can do with the Sample Editor. The information page about the Sample Editor has a short slideshow giving an idea of how creating a 'sample' works.