Why Musicians Cant Hear Themselves /ESSAY and discussion

[HyraxeC]

In our bluesband we all complain about acoustics and problems of not hearing ourselves. However, when we all try to play softer to be able to hear the others it gets much better. When you play a solo with soft and surprising elements, we discover that the rest of the band is also reducing it's volume. Frequency wise, the piano is often fighting the guitar. So if you try to be each others compliment rather than in competitition, things get better. Try it!

[zingy]

I thought this topic was going to be about a completely different phenomenon - I always hear notes in my head BEFORE I play them (on guitar best, on piano mostly, still learning to connect the ear to my playing on the sax) and often the executed sounds get masked by what I hear in my head, what is supposed to be played and how it should sound (dynamics, expression, rhythm, percussiveness, the shape of the tone). So it helps me a lot to record and listen back to my playing and then - and only then - can I actually hear how I played and figure out what I need to work on... thought this was going to be about that, not the "good ol' volume wars"

[stiiiiiiive]

Yep, I also thought it wouldn't be about that

About the piano vs guitar point, it's true: thinking multi-instrumental when composing or arranging is a key. One large historic example: many blues ancestors used to stop strumming their guitar when singing and soloed when stopping singing.

[titanium]

While I guess am not doing an essay now that there is so much input from fellow users

[zingy]

What kind of input were you hoping for? Because your general guidelines were pretty vague, you only put forth the areas you wish to study and offered no actual questions to ponder or discuss.
Give us some more pointers so we can help out...

EDIT: About the drummer issue - I play with a drummer who is also a percussionist on the cajon and my band has two separate setups - acoustic (cajon, upright bass, acoustic guitar, soprano sax/flute) and electric (drums, el.bass, el.guitar, keys, tenor sax). We have a completely different and well thought out dynamic in each setup, however in both cases - the drummer has to work the hardest. Playing the cajon has helped me understand that a lot. If you want to know how hard other members of the band must work to be heard or to play what you write... learn how to play their instruments (the basics).

[neolithic]

... the minimum volume is determined by the drums and often the cymbals cover everything else forcing the others to bump up the volume which quickly escalates into a race to who gets to 10 first...

Well, we all know the problem is guitarists as their amps go up to 11

[Frantz]

Becoz of amateurism with too much ego and lack of experience / sound understanding.

A very common & bad reflex is to raise volume of the unheard instrument instead of lowering others.

My unfortunate experience is that it can happen / start at sound-check and raise till end of gig.

The "victims" are often vocalists and kbdists.

I'm not sure how long this phenomena can remain secondary and does prevent the pleasure of playing for musicians / hearing for the audience

[shark]

A very common & bad reflex is to raise volume of the unheard instrument instead of lowering others

Wow, why didn't I think of that?
Been playing live music for over 35 years and I still cannot find the volume knob on the drumkit

[zingy]

"The knob usually sits in the chair."

Sorry, though every drummer I've worked with has been great, I just couldn't resist...

[shark]

"The knob usually sits in the chair."

Sorry, though every drummer I've worked with has been great, I just couldn't resist...

Yeah but that knob has a tendency to spring right back to max two minutes after it has been turned down.

I love all the drummers I've played with but playing soft or using lighter sticks was never their forte....