NS3 Velocity and General Sound vs NS2

[aureliopenna]

The release samples are there (in some place) on NS3, but not audible as on NS2. DAC? Preamp Out? Don't know but it's sounds diferent.

I am afraid it has to do with the Piano engine of NS3 not being able to "Play" them... another bug?

I am Afraid too maxpiano, afraid too. But, for now I just believe that the engine can play, but the engine that delivery the sound or DAC or line out Preamp was modified.

[analogika]

It is completely neutral when it is played by an external MIDI signal - which is exactly what I did when recording the difference.

The piano engine responds differently to external MIDI, regardless of what kind of keyboard is used to play it.

Not really, because that MIDI signal was produced by you playing the NS3C, while maybe having played the same "song "on the NS2C would have generated different MIDI velocities, since your "hands-ears system" would have adapted to the NS2 velocity curve and sound response (to get the result you expect while playing)

That's completely irrelevant to the obvious difference between the two piano playbacks, though. I could have been using my Wersi master, the KX88, or programmed velocities by hand into Logic — it would still be the same difference.

The only point where what you write has any relevance is personal preference — and having played the Stage 2 for four years, and now the Stage 3 for a few months, switching back and forth, I can say that I much prefer the Stage 3 compact's response.

[analogika]

LOL Actually, the release samples are listened from NS2 not from NS3..

I'm confused: You wrote that you played the NS 2 first each time, and then the NS 3 second. The second example of each note/run is slightly louder and sounds to me like it is played slightly harder (and the Stage 3 responds more strongly to dynamics).

The second example of each has a much more pronounced "zing" at the end of each note, as the damper hits the tine and kills the note — that would be the Stage 3, as per your description.

Sennheiser HD 540 here.

[aureliopenna]

LOL Actually, the release samples are listened from NS2 not from NS3..

I'm confused: You wrote that you played the NS 2 first each time, and then the NS 3 second. The second example of each note/run is slightly louder and sounds to me like it is played slightly harder (and the Stage 3 responds more strongly to dynamics).

The second example of each has a much more pronounced "zing" at the end of each note, as the damper hits the tine and kills the note — that would be the Stage 3, as per your description.

Sennheiser HD 540 here.

Oh Yes!! Totally my mistake, I indeed wrote that! But is the oposite! I'll correct!
The first I played was THE NS3 and just after that NS2, I meant, note one NS3, Note two NS2 and so on and on.

[aureliopenna]

LOL Actually, the release samples are listened from NS2 not from NS3..

I'm confused: You wrote that you played the NS 2 first each time, and then the NS 3 second. The second example of each note/run is slightly louder and sounds to me like it is played slightly harder (and the Stage 3 responds more strongly to dynamics).

The second example of each has a much more pronounced "zing" at the end of each note, as the damper hits the tine and kills the note — that would be the Stage 3, as per your description.

Sennheiser HD 540 here.

You listen exactly right but the one you're thinking is NS3 is actually NS2 and vice-versa.

[analogika]

LOL Actually, the release samples are listened from NS2 not from NS3..

I'm confused: You wrote that you played the NS 2 first each time, and then the NS 3 second. The second example of each note/run is slightly louder and sounds to me like it is played slightly harder (and the Stage 3 responds more strongly to dynamics).

The second example of each has a much more pronounced "zing" at the end of each note, as the damper hits the tine and kills the note — that would be the Stage 3, as per your description.

Sennheiser HD 540 here.

Oh Yes!! Totally my mistake, I indeed wrote that! But is the oposite! I'll correct!
The first I played was THE NS3 and just after that NS2, I meant, note one NS3, Note two NS2 and so on and on.

Ah! Thanks for getting back to us and clearing up my confusion.

And you're playing the exact same sample, exact same size, on both machines? Which one is it?

[maxpiano]

It is completely neutral when it is played by an external MIDI signal - which is exactly what I did when recording the difference.

The piano engine responds differently to external MIDI, regardless of what kind of keyboard is used to play it.

Not really, because that MIDI signal was produced by you playing the NS3C, while maybe having played the same "song "on the NS2C would have generated different MIDI velocities, since your "hands-ears system" would have adapted to the NS2 velocity curve and sound response (to get the result you expect while playing)

That's completely irrelevant to the obvious difference between the two piano playbacks, though. I could have been using my Wersi master, the KX88, or programmed velocities by hand into Logic — it would still be the same difference.

The only point where what you write has any relevance is personal preference — and having played the Stage 2 for four years, and now the Stage 3 for a few months, switching back and forth, I can say that I much prefer the Stage 3 compact's response.

I am not talking about personal preferences but of repeatability and consistency of the test, "programmed velocities by hand into Logic" would actually be the only "scientific" approach, but still it may not tell everything about playability and final sonic result which is, agree with you, personal and subjective to quite some extent.

[aureliopenna]

[/quote]Oh Yes!! Totally my mistake, I indeed wrote that! But is the oposite! I'll correct!
The first I played was THE NS3 and just after that NS2, I meant, note one NS3, Note two NS2 and so on and on.[/quote]

Ah! Thanks for getting back to us and clearing up my confusion.

And you're playing the exact same sample, exact same size, on both machines? Which one is it?[/quote]

Yes, my confusion actually, not yours.
when say the same sample means, same note, from the same Rhodes Piano sample from library (MkI Suitcase close Ideal).

Here what I did.
I put both of them to record, one above me and another one bellow, choose a note (or notes) to play both (I guess its a low "A") and played first NS3 then NS2, I play hard to reach the max velocity dynamic.
The size was not the same, and I judge this unnecessary to show this difference I would trying to show at this point.

The point is this "zing" after realease note is from the same sample and it doesn't appears on NS3.
This "zing" noise is a DETAIL from the original sample record, it should comes on both recordings regardless the sample size or time I played.
Because?...
-This tells me the audio is not coming converted, preamped, clear, as it should be. Harmonic lost? Audio qualitity lost?
-Try to do legatos piano phrases with release notes and without them . The legato will be very harmed, disconnected and lifeless without release.

[analogika]

Not really, because that MIDI signal was produced by you playing the NS3C, while maybe having played the same "song "on the NS2C would have generated different MIDI velocities, since your "hands-ears system" would have adapted to the NS2 velocity curve and sound response (to get the result you expect while playing)

That's completely irrelevant to the obvious difference between the two piano playbacks, though. I could have been using my Wersi master, the KX88, or programmed velocities by hand into Logic — it would still be the same difference.

The only point where what you write has any relevance is personal preference — and having played the Stage 2 for four years, and now the Stage 3 for a few months, switching back and forth, I can say that I much prefer the Stage 3 compact's response.

I am not talking about personal preferences but of repeatability and consistency of the test, "programmed velocities by hand into Logic" would actually be the only "scientific" approach, but still it may not tell everything about playability and final sonic result which is, agree with you, personal and subjective to quite some extent.

But the machines on my recording are doing nothing but playing back notes with velocities programmed into Logic — for the resulting differences, it is completely irrelevant how those velocities were programmed or what your or my personal preference may be: They're playing back fixed velocities, and they're doing it differently, the end.

[analogika]

Oh Yes!! Totally my mistake, I indeed wrote that! But is the oposite! I'll correct!
The first I played was THE NS3 and just after that NS2, I meant, note one NS3, Note two NS2 and so on and on.

Ah! Thanks for getting back to us and clearing up my confusion.

And you're playing the exact same sample, exact same size, on both machines? Which one is it?

Yes, my confusion actually, not yours.
when say the same sample means, same note, from the same Rhodes Piano sample from library (MkI Suitcase close Ideal).

Here what I did.
I put both of them to record, one above me and another one bellow, choose a note (or notes) to play both (I guess its a low "A") and played first NS3 then NS2, I play hard to reach the max velocity dynamic.
The size was not the same, and I judge this unnecessary to show this difference I would trying to show at this point.

The point is this "zing" after realease note is from the same sample and it doesn't appears on NS3.
This "zing" noise is a DETAIL from the original sample record, it should comes on both recordings regardless the sample size or time I played.

Since you haven't bothered to make sure that you're not using the same sample, how do we know that the reason the NS3 isn't playing the note release because it simply isn't there? Could it not be that the smaller version simply does not contain the note-off data?

I'm sorry to say it, but your test, well-meaning though it is, doesn't amount to anything, as not even minimal effort was made to apply equal conditions.

Here's what would need to be fixed: Use absolutely equal input ("hitting it as hard as I can" does not guarantee 127 velocity), and make absolutely sure we're listening to the same samples.