Nord User Forum

ricard wrote:Quite frankly, Clavia have been in business since 1983 without going under, which is truly impressive for such a small company in the synth business. Waldorf flopped in the meantime (but got up again). Where did Quasimidi go? Alesis had a stunt at synths with the Andromeda, Ion and Micron but then gave it up. There are numerous other examples. Apparently, Clavia know what they are doing. I think part of that equation is not to take too large risks. I've been led to believe that the Nord Modular G2 and Nord Lead 3 almost sunk the company. Too expensive and/or too few customers, but brilliant and forward looking products. It's a tricky business.

Yes, Neo, Ricard makes a great many good points in this well-considered post, but the above bears repeating. The industry is littered with names of synth makers who have gone under, notably including the folks who invented midi in the first place. I can't help thinking that those who believe they have a better idea about how to build synths should try opening up shop for themselves and see how that goes.

These Wizards of Nord are Masters at cooking up these hardware contraptions that spit out pleasing sound. When I go out to eat, I make it a rule to refrain from barging into the kitchen to instruct the chef on little improvements which I think can be made to his recipes or menus (they've got many sharp knives in there). Certainly as playing musicians we all may have clever little ideas which we would like to see implemented, but as Ricard also points out, ten of us musos may have twenty different "clever little ideas" in mind, all wildly disparate. And each of us may believe these "clever little ideas" to be 1) earth-shatteringly important, and 2) ridiculously easy to accomplish. They are usually neither. Implementation of all these things would cause the instrument to drift away from basic design principles of keeping it simple and straighforward.

There will necessarily be something of a symbiotic link between the synth maker and the community of musos which play those synths, and the maker's self-interest dictates that the opinions of the musos who are prospective buyers of those synths be considered. But when someone comes along who starts talking about grabbing the pitchforks and torches and storming the castle gates to demand rights of control over design decisions (recent examples include 'let's all get together and spam their server to death,' and 'my having purchased one or two of these should afford me a seat at the table at their design meetings')...this "Rise, Proletariats" advocacy is just plain moronic.

There's nothing wrong with dropping little slips of paper in the suggestion box, but such things are more likely to be well-received if submitted with a smile and a thank you than with angry threats of coercion. Sure, vote with your dollars. If you don't like what's on the menu...there are other restaurants in town (I wonder how those other chefs feel about customers barging into the kitchen...)

Bless,

Pablo

pablomastodon wrote:...If you don't like what's on the menu...there are other restaurants in town...

Or even frozen meals from the microwave instead!

Alright, maybe I was too straightforward in expressing myself, but there was a real reason for that. Thanx Ricard though, for his detailed and considered answer, and I hope you noticed, it doesn't contradict my post, but even illustrates it better instead.

I don't say and I don't want to say that NL4 is BAD, no, I like the synth, I like it's sound and features. But what I want to say, is that there are some obvious disadvantages which make your work and the whole impression about the synth not that good. It's like sitting in a good chair with a splinter in your arse. They are that small, but still very annoying.

I can understand that if you try to implement EVERY option users want to see in the synth, you finally get a mess instead of that straight and simple thing. But that's what the designers are there for. They MUST examine what the users want. EVERY option they want to implement. And then they decide what exactly they will implement, depending on different factors, such as importance for users, costs of development or implementation and if it's possible to implement in general.

Now try to explain me, why did they decide to give the NL4 users only ONE option of knob behaviour, but they gave FOUR options for control pedal types already??? Who tf does need those pedal types options??? You need it? I don't need it. I'm happy with just the pedal polarity option, given the certain type of compatible pedal is described in manual. Generally I don't need even the polarity, 'cause most pedals have a switch for it, and many of them even afford to adjust sensitivity. BUT!!! Many people really suffer from the lack of knob behaviour options and ask to implement it. So why don't you do that?

Now, one more thing. They made the NL2, it was simple and straight as hell, BUT it was rather cheap, comparing to NL3 and NL4 and it was 10 or 15 years ago!!! Okay, considering this I can accept the knobs there were dumb and not configurable. But afterwards they make NL3 which is a bit more expensive, but it has supercool knobs, solving ALL your problems. Logically, you expect the next Nord to be at least not worse than the predecessor. But then, 8 years after, you get BOOM! a wooden log in your hands. Back to the roots, eh? But again, it costs even more than the predecessor!!! The high price of the NL3, they said, was primarily of those super-led-encoders. So what's the reason for such a price of the NL4 then??? Considering it has even cheaper keyboard than the predecessor??? And it hasn't LCD-display also! A simple thought coming to mind - it's just overpriced and that's all!

But alright. Let's think a bit about the price separately. You say $2.5k is just too much for that kind of a synth. Okay, then I got some bad news for you)) Remember the new Nord Stage 2? Or the Nord Electro 4?? Nord Piano 2 or Nord C2D?? Well, the first costs $4,5k, the second is $3k. Nord Piano 2 and C2D are $3k and $3.7k respectively. Now come again, what did you say about the flagship Lead synth? Can't hear you) Think again, do you still think it would be a bad idea to make a $2,5k flaghship synth with good knobs and options, and then a short version for, okay, $1,5k?? Okay, I'm not an expert in marketing, but combining all said I think I won't be completely wrong if I say that NL4 is definitely NOT a step forward, rather than a step backward.

And the last. The reason I write it in such a way is simple. I'm fed to the teeth with all this smiling and gentle talks. You can smile around Clavia for another 10 years waiting them to make an appropriate synth for you. And I tell you what they do. They don't give a sh*t about all your smiles and gentle babble. The only thing they understand is the language of direct discontent and resentment. And the language of money of course. They start moving their arses just in case they feel they are losing clients and money. It's not about Clavia only, it's about all big companies. When you come and try to offer some good idea or ask for smth gently they listen to you with a smile and agree, but in their minds they think something like "get away, you stupid moron".

Now, I'm not dramatizing, I tell you a story of my communication with Clavia service, when I had an issue with my NL3. I wrote them for spare parts. The problem was annoying and I asked to send me out a spare part. Well, I tell you, it was a f.ckin challenge to convince them to send me out that spare part. First they told me the problem is not in that spare part and told me I was to send my synth to Sweden for service. I said "No, thanks, it's too long for me" and asked to send me out the board again. They told me the boards are out of stock and tried to convince me to sent my synth to Sweden for service instead. Then I asked if that exactly board I needed is out of stock, and then they answered "NO, it's another board that is out of stock" (WTF???!!!). Then I asked to send me out my board again. And only after that they told me they can "try" to send me out my board.
You might think I was asking for a free board, but NO, I payed $120 for it!!! So the board finally came and the synth is working properly now. But you can't imagine how angry I was during this communication.
Control, I had to ask them to send me out the f.cking spare part FOR MONEY for several times! And they tried to make a fool of me saying:" As I wrote, but you didn’t want to read, the boards are out of stock since years ago." NOT MY BOARD, FOR WHICH I HAD ASKED SEVERAL TIMES BY THE MOMENT, BUT ANOTHER!!!

So that's how they treat their clients and that's why I'm speaking this way! You know, next time, when it comes to an upgrade in my studio, I really will "check other restaraunts in town" instead of buying the NL5 immediately, like I did it with my NL4!!!

Not sure that I've seen that much cursing in any post on this forum. Don't really recall having ever seen any before...sorry if I had a hand in breaking this cherry, but there's no good reason go on so. I've probably drafted one or two posts that crossed lines, just typing words onto the screen to get them out of my system, but when the catharsis was complete I was able to discard them and be civil. It appears that you posted around 3am (which is my time now). You may regret your tone if you reread your comments in the light of day after a good night's sleep.

Bless,

Pablo

Auronaut wrote:I could understand this wouldn't be implemented in a budget synth like A1

I think it could be implemented also in a "budget" synth like A1, 'cause a function like that is selectable in the Eventide Stompboxes (it's called CATCHUP) that cost 1/3 of A1.

No, thanks, Pablo. I'm still completely okay with my post. Let's be more objective. Clavia is not the holy grail of synth making and they do it wrong sometimes too. So they have to get objective feedback in order and until they do things right.

Hi Auronaut,
You might be "completely okay" with your post, but vulgar language is not acceptable here. Read Rule 4, which you must have accepted when you joined. http://www.norduserforum.com/forum_rules.php

Also, as already pointed out to you, we are not associated with Clavia, so this is the wrong place to give them feedback. We are a group of Nord instruments users who try helping each other, exchanging ideas, tips, patches and so on. You are welcome to use the forum in that way. The place to provide feedback to Clavia is via their website form at: http://www.nordkeyboards.com/about-us/feedback

But back to the original topic, about the knobs picking up values, not everybody might agree with you. While editing, I prefer them to behave the way they do now, it saves a lot of moving back and forth to the previous position to catch up, which is also unknown in the absence of status indicators (in the NS2 I can use the shift function to see the stored value). In this regard the best solution was in the NL3 encoders with LEDs. To move faders during a performance so there are no jumps, the morph function seems the way to go.

that's why I think "both" options is the right answer for knob behavior. so many synths on market have this for that reason. for editing, immediately snapping as in your example is fantastic and fast! I keep all my stuff set to this in the studio. on stage though when all those fabulous knobs are there for the tweaking, the "snap" option is just a nightmare filled with sudden volume jumps, jumpy filters and glitchy LFO's. the morph wheel is nice but those knobs are there for using as well. not having that option is such a shortcoming. option being the function word... one we don't currently have.

Here's a recent interview with Hans Nordelius which sheds some light on the matter of Clavia and Nord Leads.

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/in- ... ory-613549

As for their service department, I can only say I've always been treated well, and have gotten small spare parts sent to me absolutely free (a broken jack, and a segment of silicone mat for a keybed, as well as an EPROM upgrade for my NL2) just by asking. I'm not saying everyone will get that (I live in Sweden so postage is minimal) but they really do seem to care as far as I'm concerned.

There are some equally valid points here made on this thread by people with opposing views: chvad made a very good point about studio vs live (that I happen to agree with), as did Pablo, Ricard et al. with their view on Nord strategy.
Getting wound up and ranting just serves to undermine the validity in the points you made.

Auronaut wrote:...But you can't imagine how angry I was during this communication....

Well, we probably can.

"vive la différence!"