Nord User Forum

The software emulations these days are really, really good. As an example, check out the IK B-3X on an iPad using headphones -- and that's sort of the bar out there, not to mention the Mojo engine and others. The high-end Hammond probably wins on pure playing experience, so there's only so much market.

The Legend's a bit overrated honestly. I owned for a little over a year before buying my Electro: it sounds better on some aspects (mainly percussion), inferior on others (the overdrives are plain terrible), on par on most things. The Mojo and the HX3 are, on the other hand, definitely superior (whenever I have to record, I opt for the VB3 II), but it's not like Nord's as behind as, say, Korg's CX-3 and Yamaha's YC simulations: Clavia surely need to improve the Leslie (hopefully re-introducing a 145 simulation) and the C/V, but it's doable.

I refuse to believe Nord would stop investing on one of the main reasons they became one of the most acclaimed keyboard manufacturers. I mean, many of us need the beautiful EPs and the sample library but still play the B3 as their main instrument! I agree we might not see a new dual-manual organ: since the Mojo Classic sells for just 1700€, a Nord C3 would need a street price of 2000€ in order to be competitive, and I really can't see Clavia pricing a C2D successor reasonably. Still, I'm sure Nord's working on the B3 simulation behind the scenes (it would be nice if they modelled a couple different organs, both Crumar and Viscount lets you choose from tons of models, like the beautiful A100).

My guess? Forever!

Once a Nord organ is preamped with the real deal AO28 original,it behaves better.The rca preamp input is not an ornament. Expression on FC7 still not the same as real deal,AO28 gets it a lot closer to behaving proper though.
The steel Boss pedals have a shallower travel for seated performing than an FC7!This Stage3 Compact likes it's 390 pound stand!
On the C2D,still use Ventilator and other second party FX.A real 122/142 Leslie will bail any Nord out! Building a real AO28 preamp 'lunchbox' to get what I need. Lounsberry TallFat/Wide not an AO28!
Will use the 1/4" line level out of C2D into AO28,that way the Leslie will see more than the 11V RMS from the C2D.About 16V RMS out can make a 122 or 147 treble horn cranky! Careful!
11V RMS is the 'rentals' market output for anyone playing a 'governed' rental.Not even close to old school levels of a modified touring Hammond.
Don't mind the extra gear once on a 'pedalboard',need damper,speed/expression on every gig anyway.It's all preset to work on the floor too.No more time than individual wires and pedals for set-ups.

No voltage drops or padding.Original Neo Vent input right off red and ground.(single leg hi-z) of the AO28 preamp.Padding is for rental outfits worried about the drivers.
Those Meyer UPM-1P speakers down below? In stereo don't really miss the Leslie much,if at all.
Extra bass supplied by original AO39 17 watt 2X12" A100 amplifier! Still reproduces lowest octave good enough to mix in! Tubes baby! Real 17 watts.A real Leslie is 35-40 watts if that.
The Meyer UPM-1P pick up where the 'dulled intentionally' trebles vanish on the original A100 built in 'tone cab'.,add the key click Hammond was so desperate to hide.No cheekblock toys needed.
When I need more or different overdrive,the Boog Model D and Neutron have external inputs.They run circles around stompboxes.Real analog ring modulations etc.
B3/A100 etc allowing me to coax more realistic tones from the clones!

Nord needs to add the R1 bypass mod to it's organ menu.The volume drop on perc normal is so 'stock' and lame.Nord should insert a guitar amp and overdrive sim, 'pre' Leslie sim.
I run the speaker outs of guitar amps right into a tube Leslie with a Nord as the instrument...many others do this too.Come on Nord,you can get off your duff and do this!
Where did the mid range go, evident on StageEX,Electro2 organs? Valid question Nord has never answered,along with many more.

Resting on laurels is what rock stars with one hit tend to do.Wish I was that lucky......Nord now stumbling badly through sophomoric attempts to get back the minuscule market share of clones,my opinion of the situation.
They could shock the 5000 or so players that use clones to make a living with something new,likely glad to be 'out of the game' is most probable.
If they get back in,we know it will be well built? Let's hope,don't bother building me one.Not in the market.A102 will run long after the chips give it up!

StrangeAeons wrote:The Legend's a bit overrated honestly. I owned for a little over a year before buying my Electro: it sounds better on some aspects (mainly percussion), inferior on others (the overdrives are plain terrible), on par on most things. The Mojo and the HX3 are, on the other hand, definitely superior (whenever I have to record, I opt for the VB3 II), but it's not like Nord's as behind as, say, Korg's CX-3 and Yamaha's YC simulations: Clavia surely need to improve the Leslie (hopefully re-introducing a 145 simulation) and the C/V, but it's doable.

I refuse to believe Nord would stop investing on one of the main reasons they became one of the most acclaimed keyboard manufacturers. I mean, many of us need the beautiful EPs and the sample library but still play the B3 as their main instrument! I agree we might not see a new dual-manual organ: since the Mojo Classic sells for just 1700€, a Nord C3 would need a street price of 2000€ in order to be competitive, and I really can't see Clavia pricing a C2D successor reasonably. Still, I'm sure Nord's working on the B3 simulation behind the scenes (it would be nice if they modelled a couple different organs, both Crumar and Viscount lets you choose from tons of models, like the beautiful A100).

Re the Viscount Legend, I believe it's actually the Leslie sim that's its weak spot. I tried for months to get a nice rawk screech out of my Legend Solo and failed, even with all the tweakability afforded by the editor software. However, now that I run it through a Vent, the overdrives sound so much better! That's why I think it's the rotary and not the drive that's subpar.
Still, the overall package (weight, layout, controls, pure tonewheel sound, C/V, percussion, look and feel) is rather good, especially given the price; that's why I hesitated to sell it and chose to try the Vent.

2 sets of drawbars, 2 manuals and the ability to play some nice (!) APs/EPs on one of them, plus the Electro's sweet FX section - that's all I ask. A sample synth, dedicated organ/piano outputs or more flexible assignments (drawbar to manual, section to manual, effects to section etc.) would be a huge plus, but not a deal-breaker for me.

I’m so glad I bought my C2D when I did. I really love it, and would probably have bought a Viscount if the Nord had not been available. It seems surprising that having the jigs, the templates and circuit boards, Nord could not keep making the C2D even in small numbers.

Finspeak wrote:It seems surprising that ... Nord could not keep making the C2D even in small numbers.

I'm sure they "could", if they wanted. But they probably decided it wasn't profitable anymore, even in small numbers.
The 2-manual clonewheel market has changed a lot since the C2D came out. At the time, there were essentially only 3 models: the C2D, SK2, and the Crumar Mojo.
Two were from well-established companies, one was from an upstart Italian boutique manufacturer, and they were well differentiated in price and features.
The C2D was much more expensive than the others, but justified it by being the only one with 4 full sets of drawbars and being the smallest and most portable: perfect for the gigging hammond player.

Nowadays? Nord's Hammond emulation has largely stayed the same, while Hammond and Crumar have vastly improved. Many additional small and big players have entered the picture (without even mentioning software instruments): Viscount, MAG organs (HX3), Korg, Roland, Yamaha all produce instruments in direct competition with the Electro and Stage lines with options for single-manuals, dual-manuals and 1+1 expandable-manuals. With 1, 2 or 4 sets of drawbars. With or without additional non-organ sounds.
Most notably, almost all of these offerings are cheaper (in most cases, MUCH cheaper) than the 3K that the Nord C2D used to cost.

The Viscount Legend offers a great organ emulation in a completely faithful Hammond layout (2 manuals, 4 sets of drawbars, reverse key presets, rocker tabs etc), and still costs less than the C2D. And the smaller Legend Live and Legend Solo are even cheaper.

The Yamaha CP and YC series are clearly inspired by the Electro-Stage concept, as are the Roland VR-09 and Korg Grandstage-Continental.

Crumar continues to tinker with its Mojo designs.

Hammond just released the SKX-Pro which is very much a direct dual-manual Nord Stage competitor: great Hammond emulation and 3 other sections of highly editable non-organ sounds.

In this market, the C2D would be a very expensive option with few advantages over the cheaper competition. No surprise Clavia decided to retire it.
We'll see if they find a way to reduce the price (unlikely), if they go the "dual-manual Stage" route like Hammond did, or if they simply decide to stay out of that arena for the time being, focusing on the more lucrative stage piano segment.
Given the hard times we're in, I wouldn't be surprised if they chose the last option, trying to weather the storm in wait of better times.

Regardless if there will be a new dual manual organ from Nord or not they should update their C2D engine. The Electro 6 and Nord Stage 3 both use this engine which was introduced in March 2012. I don’t think I am the only which expect that a Nord Stage 4 or Electro 7 will have an updated organ engine at level with last clones from Crumar or Hammond. I love the features of my Stage 3 but the organ and Leslie sim sounds a bit lifeless compared to my Crumar Mojo 61. Find it strange if Nord does not have worked to improve this engine in 10 years.

Hammond's B3 engine is by far the worst on the market. Even the new SKX-Pro still uses the same, old, outdated VASE engine: Nord's emulation might be old, but Hammond's way older, and was surpassed by the C2D's back in 2012 anyway. Whilst Nord and Viscount have been improving their clones significantly, Hammond's been simply making minor updates to the New B3's digital simulation. Actually, the same would hold true for the BX-3, which only sounds (really) good thanks to IK's superb (the best ever, in my opinion) Leslie simulation and effect pedals.

If you own both the B3-X and VB3 II apps, hook up the B3-X to an external Leslie software (like the Mojo's, which's bundled as a separate app): it's weak, especially on the high registers (and the keyclick's quite fakeish too); on the other hand, route the VB3 II through IK's Leslie cab simulation and you'll get an almost-indistinguishable-from-the-original clonewheel. Buying a Hammond keyboard nowadays means overpaying for a brand (the XK-5 has a great keyboard thanks to the simulated contacts, but that's it). Nord's true and only competitors are Viscount, Crumar and HX-3. I too hope Nord have been working on their B3: as Valpurgis pointed out, ten years of zero updates is way too much. But recently it seems as though Nord stopped actively working on many of their strong points (it's been almost three years since the release of the White Grand piano).

The XK-5 and SK Pro line including the SKX Pro do not use the VASE-engine but the newer MTW1. However the SKX used the old VASE.

I have a number of church organ samples which i use with my NORD electro 6. I would be happy to share them. I have a large English Church Organ, German Sibermann Organ, French Organ etc.