Licenses/rewards for sharing Patches & Samples

[Johannes]

Over the last months, I have been discussing issues around licenses, legal matters and rewards for creating and sharing user-created patches and samples, e.g., on this forum. While I don't hope to see any law suits in this area, it neither is a negligible issue. So here is a preliminary set of rules I thought maybe appropriate (I will include the final version of these rules in the FAQ):

( Probably it would be best to define a license for the samples shared here suach as a certain type of Creative Commons License (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons), in particular the "Attribution Share Alike (CC-BY-SA)" License:


(1) Users need to ensure that the license agreements that they agreed upon by buying a keyboard or software instrument is respected when creating samples. I think this is no issue when sampling from hardware instruments or creating patches without samples, but can be an issue if using VSTi's. For instance, see the following part in the End User Agreement of Native Instruments: (http://www.native-instruments.com/en/co ... nt/#c26349)

The usage of this product (in particular samples, instruments and presets) for the creation of a sound library or as a sound library for any kind of synthesizer, virtual instrument, sample library, sample-based product or other musical instrument is strictly prohibited. Individual samples, sound sets or audio loops may not be distributed (commercially or otherwise) standalone. Furthermore these samples, sound sets or audio may not be repackaged in whole or in part as audio samples, sound libraries or sound effects.

(2) Once a sample/patch is shared freely by uploading it to this website, it can be downloaded by anyone and used by all members and guests. This right includes using them as basis for your own sounds. Distributing and sharing them for free is allowed and encouraged whenever credit is given to the original creator.
However, you are NOT allowed to sell patches or samples neither as an individual sample nor as part of a sample collection.

(3) While the basic idea is that of free sharing, creating samples takes a lot of work. While sharing them for free allows everyone to free ride on this effort, it is understandable that active sharers (rare species, unfortunately, so it might need some protective measures) would like to get some kind of compensation if users find their work useful. Users on the other hand, might be willing to pay for a particular sample they need or including wanting to buy them, as there are many commercial samples available out there
Therefore a person who decides to share their creations here have two options:
(a) include a link for voluntary donations via Paypal to your Paypal account
or
(b) reference a link on a commercial website. In this case, the general rule about advertisements applies, i.e., this is possible only once per month per user in the forum or otherwise in the Buy&Sell section.

If you have any comments please let me know. J

[Frantz]

I really was wondering if I had the right to sample my Roland RD300.
May be we should add that using the sounds is allowed for personal use only ? (and that "pro" starts when you earn something).

This depends on :
- the agreements we accepted when buying a product
- the laws of the country we live in

I must admit I haven't read my Roland RD end user licences agreement !

We should read & know.

[Johannes]

I think sampling a HARDWARE instrument should be OK (at least their license agreements or terms of use typically don't specify the use of samples recorded).
However, VSTis typically preclude this use. IMHO it makes sense since a hardware instrument is not about the sample themselves but about effects, other hardware components such as sequencers etc., UI, .... while for VSTi the pure sample makes up for a much larger share of the overall product.

As I stated in the forum rules, the free samples are for personal use only in that they are not allowed to be commercialized which makes sense. However, precluding ANY "pro" use would be strange IMHO (so you are allowed to do a freebie jazz thing or benefiz gig but would have to use a different sampleset for playing paying gigs).

But I agree those IPR issues are in general complicated as you say depending on the country ofliving, maybe even the country where this website is hosted, etc.

Concluding I would say, be careful with VSTis, Hardware should be OK, and don't sell the samples you downloaded from this forum (obviously you CAN sell the ones you created yourself!).

[Frantz]

again ... thx . Clear for me.

[scottgallacher]

Hi Folks,
thanks for the above explanations.

I've owned a Nord Stage 2 for almost a year now,I regularly play in a wedding/function band so patch building is very necessary to getting the particular sounds I'm after..

Since buying my Nord though, I've often wondered if there's anybody out there creating/selling more accurate patches than are available on this forum, if not then there's potentially a massive gap in the market for gigging/professional musicians..

Occasionally users manage to get their patches close but I'm finding the majority of posts aren't quite close enough and there's a distinct lack of organization when it comes to the actual "patch list" on the forums, seems to just come down to word searching and trial and error rather than a catalogue type approach.

If anyone is aware of an existing online service where I can buy high quality, current sample/patches for wedding work I'd be very interested to learn about it.

If indeed there's no main resource for this I will consider building this service myself for Nord users to utilise..
(after I fully appreciate the legalities of it all of course..)

Let me know
thanks, Scott

[neolithic]

Occasionally users manage to get their patches close but I'm finding the majority of posts aren't quite close enough

The problem is if you want to make a sound *exactly* like the original: sampling is nearly always going to sound like a sample and disappoint when it comes to performance - especially for complex pads etc. that change over time. The synth section in something like the NS2 is very limited, and its almost impossible to nail a sound unless it's a really simple sound, created on a synth with an architecture that the NS2 models (even then, the simplest of synth sounds - something like Van Halen's 'Jump' is never going to be anywhere near as good as on a real OBX). I can't speak for the NL2 or the NLA but even these will have their limitations, even in the most skilled sound designer's hands...

However, you may like this idea: I was thinking about something kindof related to this topic, the other day:

A great deal of effort was spent in the past by Johannes and others to create a list of patches by title, user with links etc., but AFAIK this was quite laborious for those involved to update and maintain.
What would be great is to have a web app, possibly developed as a custom module for this board (PHPBB3 i think).
- First of all, it would provide a central place to upload patches and samples, rather than buried in a thread.
- The task of classifying the patch/sample would fall to the uploader, so minimal admin maintenance
- To add a sample, contributors would be required to provide:
- a description
- a short MP3 demo of the sound.
- guidance on any settings (e.g. attack, decay etc. for samples), or performance tips (e.g. modulations, specific key assignments for samples or suggested range(
- some basic metadata attributes to describe the patch: e.g. Cover version (with artist/song name), lead, pad, etc.
- Finally, when users download a sample, they get to provide a star rating for quality. Then there could be a leaderboard of contributors, e.g. most prolific, highest ratings etc.

All this sounds like a lot of work, but there are quite a few software/web developers among us... I don't have time to take it on alone, but i'd be happy to contribute. I have a feeling there is probably already a custom module that does some of this, that could be used as a starting point - e.g. a module that lets users upload and rate photos may have some similarities.
@Johannes - What do you think? Just an idea

[Marlowes]

Hej!

... the NL2 or the NLA1 ...

Still waiting for the "Nord Lead Program Collection" corner of this eminent forum!
I'll do my best to supply posts.

/Amicalement
Michael

[Johannes]

Hi guys,

all very well taken points here.

Firstly, scottgallacher, I absolutely agree with you, it is a lot of work recreating a patch for a Top40 or whatever cover you are playing, and it costs a lot of time, so having a service commercially or not to share or exchange them would be appreciated I am pretty sure. The point is, it takes time and effort and from our experience here you will have a hard time just getting say current Top40 repertoire zip file containing all files so you can just come to a gig and play like a Pro.

I have seen many requests here, but for a decent library or program list to be simply used there are just too many songs out there plus man people like to experiment, just upload sounds they like rather than meticulous replications of some original tunes or particular versions of a song.
I agree the nature of a forum is not optimal for such a task, so we added the collections which are not automatized but updated at an irregular basis as it takes time.
Neolithic I take your point that creating a full customized database with nice frontend to provide all samples and programs in one place with the possibility to upload, create previews etc. could be nice. Only thing is whether it is worth it given the number of patches and samples, compared to the potential number e.g., of sounds of pop/rock songs to look for. Using STRG+F on the collection pages for now should achieve the same trick. Maybe one day...
In fact, I think this would be also useful for the Nord Websites as browsing the sample library can be a bit tedious at times...

Marlowes, and about the Nord Lead, it will be there before Spring begins, promised!