Tuning a children's guitar

[offrhodes]

Almost the right forum but maybe somebody knows:

I mail-ordered a fairly cheap 1/4-size acoustic guitar for the kids.
Problem is, the intonation is horrible between open and fretted strings:
- I tune the open strings with an electronic tuner, standard EADGBE / 440 tuning.
- Barre-only chords sound OK
- But any "cowboy" chord with open strings sounds wrong, because open and fretted strings don't match.

Throwing more money at the problem is the obvious solution ... "Don't buy a cheap guitar" is advice I've given more than once to friends but with an over-enthusiastic 15 mo kid in the household I decided to re-consider my own rule ...

My question is, for what tuning is such a small guitar designed? Common sense suggests its should be tuned higher, as the string length is shorter (505 mm vs e.g. 640 mm full-size).
This would probably even out differences between the wound and plain (nylon) strings, which generally seem very loose at standard tuning.

Happy for any opinions or experience...

[Elias]

Let your children enjoy some Jacob Collier, and let them explore the guitar. In 3 years they will convince you that the guitar is in fact not out of tune.

[offrhodes]

OK I think I got it sorted out: The three plain nylon strings need a lot of stretching. They are now visibly thinner than at the knotted end (which is unstretched).
Intonation has just re-entered the atmosphere.

[JayDee]

That sounds about the size of a Baritone Ukelele. They're tuned like the last 4 strings of a guitar capo'ed at the 5th string. I'd try A D G B E A Like a guitar capo'ed at the 5th fret. If too high go for G C F Bb D G (guitar capo'ed 3rd fret) That small body might not be right for std guitar tuning. ****You could also just string the last 4 strings and play it as a ukelele, less pull on the neck. Don't break the strings if they are getting too tight when you crank them up, may have to compromise. As long as it sounds more or less in tune with itself....

***the baritone ukelele tuning is actually like a guitar (last 4 strings) NOT guitar fretted at the 5th: sorry, been awhile since i messed with ukes

[CountFosco]

- But any "cowboy" chord with open strings sounds wrong, because open and fretted strings don't match.

It would be interesting to see if Jaydee's G tuning makes a difference, but if you're hearing good tuning on open strings but not when fretted, I'd suspect a warped or badly calibrated fretboard. Honestly I think this exact problem is the reason to avoid buying a cheap guitar for a beginner. Once you get to the point where you want to play notes or chords higher up the fretboard, and nothing sounds right, it can sap the motivation to keep learning. But you're right about the strings needing stretching, they'll take some time to stabilise.

[wtibbit]

If the guitar's bridge is movable, try moving it slightly, a little at the time, towards the neck if notes fretted at the octave fret are flat, or away from the neck if they are sharp. A movable bridge can often be positioned so that the end under the low strings is more or less distant from the neck than the end under the high strings; try that if the high strings need the bridge in one position and the low strings need it in another position.

[analogika]

Let your children enjoy some Jacob Collier, and let them explore the guitar. In 3 years they will convince you that the guitar is in fact not out of tune.