Piano 5 and Grand 2 as MIDI controllers

[artofmoog]

Hi all. Are there any Piano 5 or Grand 2 users that can speak for how these models fare as MIDI controllers - especially with regard to velocity gradation and range. I’m not looking for more general controller abilities (patch changes etc) but just purely at the playing experience with virtual pianos like Garritan CFX and Ivory III. Musical styles predominantly classical, and some jazz.

Currently I have a Piano 3, which I like a lot generally and has served me very well over the years. But the max velocity I’ ve ever been able to achieve from it (monitoring the raw event data coming into my DAW) is about 105-110, without resorting to some kind of RSI-inducing sledgehammer touch. I also find the response somewhat ‘peaky’ in the middle of the range, such that individual notes become unexpectedly over- or under-pronounced - it’s harder than it should be to play really evenly. (With the internal sounds some of the same behaviour is there, though it seems less pronounced). I can scale velocity data in the DAW, even in real time, to achieve the full 0-127 range, but that exacerbates the peaky quality.

Just trying to ascertain if the Piano 5 or Stage 2 is markedly better in this regard. My nearest retailer likely to have both is 2 hours away, and I’ll need to check they’re happy for me to connect my laptop. So some user experiences would be really valuable. Many thanks.

[FZiegler]

Interesting question. The Nord MIDI velocity curve has been massively adapted for Nord Stage 3 in around 2021. With that change, I was able to leave my MIDI velocity converter away which I had used before.

I have no evidence if this has been changed for the following models as well, though - but I'd assume they did. So, there might be a new MIDI velocity curve around for the models requested. But very interesting to get an approval.

[cphollis]

I've owned the NP2, NP4 and now the shorter NP5. Each iteration was a big upgrade in the FTEC (finger to ear connection) in terms of key weighting, MIDI curve and overall responsiveness. I like the NP5 73 action so much that I think I'm done looking for a better one

I predominately use the NPs as dumb midi controllers for NS3 and now the NS4. The velocity curves and responsiveness are perfect for me.

I can't speak to using NPs as midi controllers with soft pianos, as I haven't done much of that.

[cgrafx]

Having just recently purchased a NP5 73 to replace my Alesis QS8, I can also say that responsiveness of the keybed is very good. There is still a difference between the way the NP5 internal processes the keybed and external MIDI. I tested this by connecting the NP5 to my Stage 3 compact. The sound generated on the NP5 is just more nuanced and refined than what I could get on the NS3 using the same samples. That being said, there was definitely a huge improvement playing the NS3 using the NP5 keybed.

I'd expect using a NP5 or Grand as a MIDI controller for VST based virtual pianos would work very well.

[artofmoog]

Thanks for all that info - really helpful. It sounds promising. To be honest, as much as I like the idea of that longer key action in the Grand, I’d prefer the Piano for practical reasons. I’ll see if I can find one to check out.

As regards the triple sensor action, and the way that the same nuance can’t be achieved even playing the same samples in another Nord, that is fascinating. I’d heard something similar before. I wonder what is going on there, exactly. Maybe it’s a sort of internal high resolution velocity scheme, which gets quantised down for MIDI transmission.

[maxpiano]

Interesting question. The Nord MIDI velocity curve has been massively adapted for Nord Stage 3 in around 2021. With that change, I was able to leave my MIDI velocity converter away which I had used before.

this is interesting, @artofmoog maybe a trivial question but... do you have the latest OS (2.0.x) on your NP3?

Then, when using piano Virtual Instruments, my experience is that it is always a matter of working on their velocity curve too (even if the master/digital piano one may be "optimal" at the source)

[cgrafx]

As regards the triple sensor action, and the way that the same nuance can’t be achieved even playing the same samples in another Nord, that is fascinating. I’d heard something similar before. I wonder what is going on there, exactly. Maybe it’s a sort of internal high resolution velocity scheme, which gets quantised down for MIDI transmission.

100% this. The keybed does NOT send MIDI data internally, so is not restricted by the 7 bits of velocity values imposed by MIDI (0-127).

[artofmoog]

@cgrafx - fascinating. I'm not sure Nord ever really made clear any specific benefits of the triple sensor system, including that one. I always had a vague understanding it was (maybe amongst other things) to do with allowing retriggering of notes from lower down in the stroke, as might happen with some trills for example, but it makes total sense that it's also, and perhaps more than anything, a high resolution scheme.

@maxpiano - yes, I'm on the latest 2.02 firmware. I just spent 20 mins with the velocity curve control in Garritan CFX, going back to that with renewed purpose, and I've been able to get a very workable and responsive curve in place there. Checking again, from the NP3 the absolute highest velocity I see from any key is 123, and that's hitting it with thumb and finger braced together. But I can scale up that top region of the response in the VI, and actually slightly suppress the middle too to prevent a few unwanted accents. Easily good enough to not warrant shelling out £2400 for an NP5 (much as I'd kinda like to in other ways...), so the NP3 can stay for a while longer I think.