Low Line Output Gain Issue – Nord Stage 4 & Focusrite Scarlett 16i16

[majek89]

Hi everyone,

I've read several threads on this topic, but I couldn't find a clear answer. I'm using a Nord Stage 4 and a Focusrite Scarlett 16i16 4th Gen audio interface. I connect the Nord's line outputs (1&2) to the interface’s line inputs (3&4), but the signal I get in my DAW (Ableton) is very weak—around -20dB at best, and typically closer to -30dB during normal playing (with the master level on the NS4 turned all the way up).

I’ve seen a lot of discussion about Nord's output levels, but I'd really like to record without using XLR inputs 1&2 on my interface (which have preamps), as I need those for other purposes. As I understand it, the issue is that the Nord’s line outputs operate at -10dBV, while my interface expects +4dBu line level.

Has anyone encountered the same problem and found a good solution? I’m considering using a converter like this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08NQ1SMTJ

Would this work? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

[majek89]

Hi and welcome to NUF

I have no issues connecting my NS3 to a Yamaha AG03 Line Inputs (which I think are TS/unbalanced), with master at 75%. I have to push the gain a bit instead on my MOTU Ultralite which has TRS Line Inputs.

Are you maybe also using balanced TRS cables instead of unbalanced TS (as NS outputs are TS)?

[cphollis]

Hi everyone,

I've read several threads on this topic, but I couldn't find a clear answer. I'm using a Nord Stage 4 and a Focusrite Scarlett 16i16 4th Gen audio interface. I connect the Nord's line outputs (1&2) to the interface’s line inputs (3&4), but the signal I get in my DAW (Ableton) is very weak—around -20dB at best, and typically closer to -30dB during normal playing (with the master level on the NS4 turned all the way up).

I’ve seen a lot of discussion about Nord's output levels, but I'd really like to record without using XLR inputs 1&2 on my interface (which have preamps), as I need those for other purposes. As I understand it, the issue is that the Nord’s line outputs operate at -10dBV, while my interface expects +4dBu line level.

Has anyone encountered the same problem and found a good solution? I’m considering using a converter like this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08NQ1SMTJ

Would this work? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

Yeah, you have to make up ~14dB if you’re using a +4dB interface. Not sure why you’re reluctant to add more digital gain to the equation, it’s very clean.

[ESFlash]

a few suggestions, some of which you probably have done . . . .

Perhaps you need to check the input and output configuration settings on the Focusrite.

Manual page 15 has some info on switching your 1/4" inputs from line level to inst level -- you might get a more robust signal coming in to the interface if you switch from line to inst.

You also should see if "auto gain" is off; you want as much manual control as you can stand

Also check your output level control on the Focusrite --- most signal chain problems are caused by improper gain staging between the AD / DA interface going into your DAW, which may or may not be the case with your setup.

--- unlike the Nord keyboards which have dedicated controls for 90% of what someone needs or wants the current crop of swiss army knife DAW interfaces rely on menu upon menu to properly set things up,

A lot of info in the manual concerns controlling and setting it up using their control 2 software

https://fael-downloads-prod.focusrite.c ... _v3_en.pdf

[DJKeys]

Check the levels in on your Focusrite control software. I use a Clarett 8Pre and have plenty of gain into Studio One with the keyboard volume a 2 o'clock. The Clarett shows -12db at the loudest I would monitor. Studio one Audio Channel input is the same. You wouldn't want to record much hotter than that anyway-

-dj

[majek89]

Thank you for all the responses!

Are you maybe also using balanced TRS cables instead of unbalanced TS (as NS outputs are TS)?

I’m using an unbalanced TS cable (jack-jack mono instrumental cable).

Yeah, you have to make up ~14dB if you’re using a +4dB interface. Not sure why you’re reluctant to add more digital gain to the equation, it’s very clean.

How would I do that? In Ableton, I can boost the volume up to +6dB, but even at the maximum setting, it doesn’t make much of a difference.

Perhaps you need to check the input and output configuration settings on the Focusrite.

Manual page 15 has some info on switching your 1/4" inputs from line level to inst level -- you might get a more robust signal coming in to the interface if you switch from line to inst.

You also should see if "auto gain" is off; you want as much manual control as you can stand

Also check your output level control on the Focusrite --- most signal chain problems are caused by improper gain staging between the AD / DA interface going into your DAW, which may or may not be the case with your setup.

--- unlike the Nord keyboards which have dedicated controls for 90% of what someone needs or wants the current crop of swiss army knife DAW interfaces rely on menu upon menu to properly set things up,

A lot of info in the manual concerns controlling and setting it up using their control 2 software

Everything in Focusrite Control 2 is set up correctly. The points you mentioned mostly apply to inputs 1 & 2, which have preamps and adjustable gain/auto-gain settings. However, the line inputs don’t have any gain control, nor can they be switched to instrument level (which wouldn’t be necessary anyway—instrument inputs are meant for direct connection of unamplified instruments like guitars).

In this case, I’m connecting a line output to a line input, so it should work as expected—but it doesn’t.

Check the levels in on your Focusrite control software. I use a Clarett 8Pre and have plenty of gain into Studio One with the keyboard volume a 2 o'clock. The Clarett shows -12db at the loudest I would monitor. Studio one Audio Channel input is the same. You wouldn't want to record much hotter than that anyway-

As mentioned above, everything is fine on the inputs with preamps (and I believe the 8Pre has those?), but I’m talking about the line inputs, which—according to the manual—are specifically designed for instruments like this.

[FZiegler]

The line input channels are probably set up as stereo pair - with panning hard left and right for the two channels? Unless, there could be phase cancellation - which should not only be lower but also somewhat odd in sounding.

[cphollis]

"In this case, I’m connecting a line output to a line input, so it should work as expected—but it doesn’t."

No, not if the sender is using -10dB and the receiver +4dB, it's gonna be awfully quiet. I use Logic Pro, and I just add a "gain" utility plugin (good for +24dB) and I'm good -- not sure about Ableton. Also, if one of the cables is phase reversed, it's gonna almost silent.

I've played Nords for years, and I guess I'm just used to working with -10dB. A small mixer or powered DI is also helpful for working with some legacy PA mixers that are out there.

[DJKeys]

"As mentioned above, everything is fine on the inputs with preamps (and I believe the 8Pre has those?), but I’m talking about the line inputs, which—according to the manual—are specifically designed for instruments like this."

The Clarett has combo jacks, when using the 1/4 inch input, the Mic Pres are bypassed, so these are line level inputs.

Have you boosted the line outputs 3 and 4 using the Focusrite control 2 software? As you said, the hardware control does not affect these outputs.

-dj

[majek89]

No, not if the sender is using -10dB and the receiver +4dB, it's gonna be awfully quiet. I use Logic Pro, and I just add a "gain" utility plugin (good for +24dB) and I'm good -- not sure about Ableton. Also, if one of the cables is phase reversed, it's gonna almost silent.

I've played Nords for years, and I guess I'm just used to working with -10dB. A small mixer or powered DI is also helpful for working with some legacy PA mixers that are out there.

Right, but the fact that the Nord outputs -10dBV is basically just an assumption, since it's not explicitly stated in the documentation. However, it does seem to be the case.
I’d prefer not to have any additional devices in the signal chain while recording, but if I have to, I was thinking about using this converter instead of a DI box:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08NQ1SMTJ

Do you think this could work?

Have you boosted the line outputs 3 and 4 using the Focusrite control 2 software? As you said, the hardware control does not affect these outputs.

How can you boost that in Control 2 software? There’s only a gain adjustment for inputs 1 and 2. I can change the settings in the "Mixer" section, but that only affects monitoring through the Main Output. Even if I mute everything there, I still get the input signal in Ableton or Pro Tools. So as far as I can tell, there’s no software-based gain adjustment for inputs 3 & 4.